29 Jan
2024
29 Jan
'24
4:27 p.m.
Helmut, list
Yes, Popper’s rejection of idealism - as in Plato’s ‘ideal primal state of Forms’ and
Hegel’s ideal final state is expressed in numerous places - and clearly in that quote from
6.348. And - his rejection of Marxist determinism and necessity - in favour of the
realities of chance [ Firstness] and the creativity of Thirdness, or the self-generation
of new habits.
Yes, Popper was well aware of Peirce. In his book Objective Knowledge,[Oxford UP, 1972]
Popper references Peirce quite frequently, and called him “one of the greatest
philosophers of all time] [212]. And says that his own “indeterminist view of the world”
[296] .. is similar to that of Charles Sanders Peirce [ ibid].
In fact, Popper’s Three World Theory. [outlined in Objective Knowledge] has strong
relations to Peirces’ Three Modes. His World 1 is the basic physical world; his World 2
is the world of individual subjective experience; his world 3 is the world of common
objective thought. I consider that Peirce’s modes are superior to this outline -
but-…obviously- the similarities are there.
Edwina
On Jan 29, 2024, at 10:03 AM, Helmut Raulien
<H.Raulien(a)gmx.de> wrote:
Edwina, John, List,
I have read the two books by Karl Popper: "The open society and its enemies"
(Thank you for recommending me!), and, as far as I am competent, completely agree with
Popper. He is against "historicism", and both refutes Platon (ideal primal
state), and Hegel (ideal final state). About Marx, he approves his analysis of the
situation at Marx´ time, but refutes his prophecies, and therefore his claim, that there
"scienttific"ly is a necessity in history. History is just stories. I wonder,
whether Popper knew Peirce, because I see some parallelity.
Best, Helmut
Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. Januar 2024 um 21:33 Uhr
Von: "Edwina Taborsky" <taborsky(a)primus.ca>
An: sowa(a)bestweb.net
Cc: "Peirce List" <peirce-l(a)list.iupui.edu>du>, "CG"
<cg(a)lists.iccs-conference.org>
Betreff: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Concluding section 7 of the article on phaneroscopy
John, list
Thanks for the chapter. I particularly liked your inclusion off the Peircean quote;
Get rid, thoughtful Reader, of the Okhamistic prejudice of political partisanship that in
thought, in being, and in development the indefinite is due to a degeneration from a
primal state of perfect definiteness. The truth is rather on the side of the Scholastic
realists that the unsettled is the primal state, and that definiteness and
determinateness, the two poles of settledness, are, in the large, approximations,
developmentally, epistemologically, and metaphysically. (CP 6.348)
This clarifies that neither the primal state nor the ‘final state’ [ of there be such a
state] is ‘perfect definiteness’. Instead, both are unsettled’. How could it be
otherwise? Without such indefiniteness, no adaptation or evolution could occur, and the
laws of physics would lead to inevitable dissipation of energy/matter. To prevent this-
and thus enable ever more complex forms, ‘indefiniteness’ on both sides, is the answer.
Edwina.
On Jan 27, 2024, at 11:27 PM, John F Sowa <sowa(a)bestweb.net> wrote:
I finally finished the article on phaneroscopy and sent it off to the publisher. The
final Section 7 is attached. It shows that Peirce's writings in the last decade of
his life are at the forefront of ongoing research in the cognitive sciences (philosophy,
psychology, linguistics, artificial intelligence, neuroscience, and anthropology).
At the end, I include links to a few other articles that go into more detail about
current issues and the importance of Peirce's insights.
John
<Section7.pdf>_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at
https://cspeirce.com <https://cspeirce.com/> and, just as well, at
https://www.cspeirce.com <https://www.cspeirce.com/> . It'll take a while to
repair / update all the links!
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY
ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L(a)list.iupui.edu .
► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to list(a)list.iupui.edu with
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him and Ben Udell.
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<https://cspeirce.com/> and, just as well, at https://www.cspeirce.com
<https://www.cspeirce.com/> . It'll take a while to repair / update all the
links! ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to
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_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at
https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at
https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the links!
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY
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29 Jan
29 Jan
4:30 p.m.
New subject: [PEIRCE-L] Concluding section 7 of the article on phaneroscopy
Sorry- I meant Peirce’s rejection of idealism. Not simply Popper’s! [ Peirce was an
Objective Idealist - completely different from the detached-from-reality determinism and
finality of pure idealism. ]
Edwina
On Jan 29, 2024, at 10:27 AM, Edwina Taborsky
<taborsky(a)primus.ca> wrote:
Helmut, list
Yes, Popper’s rejection of idealism - as in Plato’s ‘ideal primal state of Forms’ and
Hegel’s ideal final state is expressed in numerous places - and clearly in that quote from
6.348. And - his rejection of Marxist determinism and necessity - in favour of the
realities of chance [ Firstness] and the creativity of Thirdness, or the self-generation
of new habits.
Yes, Popper was well aware of Peirce. In his book Objective Knowledge,[Oxford UP, 1972]
Popper references Peirce quite frequently, and called him “one of the greatest
philosophers of all time] [212]. And says that his own “indeterminist view of the world”
[296] .. is similar to that of Charles Sanders Peirce [ ibid].
In fact, Popper’s Three World Theory. [outlined in Objective Knowledge] has strong
relations to Peirces’ Three Modes. His World 1 is the basic physical world; his World 2
is the world of individual subjective experience; his world 3 is the world of common
objective thought. I consider that Peirce’s modes are superior to this outline -
but-…obviously- the similarities are there.
Edwina
On Jan 29, 2024, at 10:03 AM, Helmut Raulien
<H.Raulien(a)gmx.de> wrote:
Edwina, John, List,
I have read the two books by Karl Popper: "The open society and its enemies"
(Thank you for recommending me!), and, as far as I am competent, completely agree with
Popper. He is against "historicism", and both refutes Platon (ideal primal
state), and Hegel (ideal final state). About Marx, he approves his analysis of the
situation at Marx´ time, but refutes his prophecies, and therefore his claim, that there
"scienttific"ly is a necessity in history. History is just stories. I wonder,
whether Popper knew Peirce, because I see some parallelity.
Best, Helmut
Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. Januar 2024 um 21:33 Uhr
Von: "Edwina Taborsky" <taborsky(a)primus.ca>
An: sowa(a)bestweb.net
Cc: "Peirce List" <peirce-l(a)list.iupui.edu>du>, "CG"
<cg(a)lists.iccs-conference.org>
Betreff: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Concluding section 7 of the article on phaneroscopy
John, list
Thanks for the chapter. I particularly liked your inclusion off the Peircean quote;
Get rid, thoughtful Reader, of the Okhamistic prejudice of political partisanship that in
thought, in being, and in development the indefinite is due to a degeneration from a
primal state of perfect definiteness. The truth is rather on the side of the Scholastic
realists that the unsettled is the primal state, and that definiteness and
determinateness, the two poles of settledness, are, in the large, approximations,
developmentally, epistemologically, and metaphysically. (CP 6.348)
This clarifies that neither the primal state nor the ‘final state’ [ of there be such a
state] is ‘perfect definiteness’. Instead, both are unsettled’. How could it be
otherwise? Without such indefiniteness, no adaptation or evolution could occur, and the
laws of physics would lead to inevitable dissipation of energy/matter. To prevent this-
and thus enable ever more complex forms, ‘indefiniteness’ on both sides, is the answer.
Edwina.
On Jan 27, 2024, at 11:27 PM, John F Sowa <sowa(a)bestweb.net> wrote:
I finally finished the article on phaneroscopy and sent it off to the publisher. The
final Section 7 is attached. It shows that Peirce's writings in the last decade of
his life are at the forefront of ongoing research in the cognitive sciences (philosophy,
psychology, linguistics, artificial intelligence, neuroscience, and anthropology).
At the end, I include links to a few other articles that go into more detail about
current issues and the importance of Peirce's insights.
John
<Section7.pdf>_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at
https://cspeirce.com <https://cspeirce.com/> and, just as well, at
https://www.cspeirce.com <https://www.cspeirce.com/> . It'll take a while to
repair / update all the links!
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY
ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L(a)list.iupui.edu .
► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to list(a)list.iupui.edu with
UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at
https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html .
► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by
him and Ben Udell.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at https://cspeirce.com
<https://cspeirce.com/> and, just as well, at https://www.cspeirce.com
<https://www.cspeirce.com/> . It'll take a while to repair / update all the
links! ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to
REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L(a)list.iupui.edu . ►
To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to list(a)list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE
PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at
https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE
GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at
https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at
https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the links!
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY
ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L(a)list.iupui.edu .
► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to list(a)list.iupui.edu with
UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at
https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html .
► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by
him and Ben Udell.
6:13 p.m.
New subject: Three universes (was Concluding section 7
Edwina, Helmut, List,
Since the issue about Peirce's three universes was mentioned in your notes, I'm
including an excerpt that I had intended to include in the article I just finished. (See
below)
Although it's relevant to the content of that article, it raises too many questions
that would require more explanation. After the excerpt below, I include two links to
other articles in which I discussed some related topics.
John
___________________________
Text omitted from the article on phaneroscopy:
Plato and Aristotle disagreed about the role of mathematics. Plato claimed that
mathematical forms (such as Peirce’s diagrams) are prior to any physical embodiment, but
Aristotle claimed that mathematical entities are not separable from sensible things.
Peirce’s three universes of discourse resolve this conflict: the possible, the actual, and
the necessitated.
The universe of possibilities is the domain of pure mathematics. Every mathematical theory
begins with some hypothesis expressed in a diagram or its algebraic linearization. The
special sciences study the universe of actuality. The hypotheses (diagrams) of mathematics
are applied to aspects of actuality in order to make predictions. The hypotheses that make
reliable predictions are the laws of science. They are the best known approximations to
the laws of nature. The totality of laws of nature is the universe of the necessitated.
Although Aristotle did not discuss signs in his metaphysics, his earlier writings (the
Organon) covered logic and semiotic in his analysis of sêmeion, symbolon, and logos. For
Peirce, mathematical phaneroscopy leads to the three categories (trichotomy) of Firstness,
Secondness, and Thirdness, which classify all the signs of perception, language, and the
sciences. The dotted lines of Figure 1 show the flow of diagrams and theorems from
mathematics to the other sciences:
- Possibility. Every mathematical theory develops the implications of some possible
pattern (diagram). There is no reason to exclude any possibility or to deprecate it as a
fantasy. Some fantasies may be adopted as plans for engineering projects. They then
become aspects of actuality.
- Actuality. The special sciences observe patterns in the actual universe, find and apply
mathematical theories about those patterns, use those theories to make predictions about
what may happen, make new observations to test those predictions, revise the theories, and
repeat.
- Necessity. The propositions entailed by any pattern by any diagrammatic reasoning are
necessarily true of any occurrence of that pattern. All theories of science are fallible,
but the best are reliable on those domains for which they have been thoroughly tested.
All mathematical theories must be available for applications to the special sciences. All
semiotic patterns are necessary for representing natural and artificial languages. In
fact, every artificial language in mathematics and computer science is a disciplined
application of the syntactic and semantic mechanisms of natural languages. Value judgments
are necessary for reasoning about the beliefs, desires, and intentions in any social
activity or organization — and the organizations must include colonies of any species from
bacteria to humans or even aliens from other galaxies.
If the diagramming conventions are precisely defined, these rules are sound: observation
and imagination would add duplicate information in some area; and erasure would delete
duplicates. For scenes in nature, photographs, and informal drawings, these rules may be
useful, but fallible approximations. For more discussion and examples, see “Peirce, Polya,
and Euclid: Integrating logic, heuristics, and geometry” (Sowa 2015) and “Reasoning with
diagrams and images” (Sowa 2018).
I presented the talk on "Peirce, Polya, and Euclid" at an APA session on Peirce.
I later presented an extension to the slides at a workshop hosted by Zalamea in Columbia
in December 2015. See htttps://jfsowa.com/talks/ppe.pdf
The article on "Reasoning with diagrams and images" is an extended version of
the material in ppe.pdf. See the link in slide 2 of ppe.pdf. It's helpful to read
the slides before going to the longer article.
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