Gary, The word 'limits" sounds negative. That is why I recommend a positive way of describing the distinction of continuous and discrete representations. 1. The mapping to and from the world depends of continuous representations, such as differential equations and an ope-ended variety of technologies for mapping information about the world for many kinds of applications. 2. Various kinds of diagrams and graphs represent discrete models of the world and things in it. Mappings of those representations to and from computable forms may use various kinds of formal logics. 3. Natural languages can represent anything that humans experience, think, plan, do, or intend to do. Therefore, they should be able to represent anything and everything in #1 and #2.at any level of precision or approximation. The top two lines describe the continuous and discrete. The third line shows how and why people can describe both sides while using their native language. An important point about using NLs for discussing formal topics: : Every textbook on logic defines the subject by sentences in some NL. Therefore it is possible (but not easy) to talk precisely about formal methods. However, it is too easy to slip into vagueness. The exercise of mapping NLs to a forma logic forces humans to be absolutely precise. But many people don't know how to do that. Therefore, it's important to develop interactive tools to aid in the translation. John. ---------------------------------------- From: "Gary Berg-Cross" <gbergcross(a)gmail.com> Sent: 10/18/24 1:48 PM To: ontolog-trustee(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ontolog-forum <ontolog-forum(a)googlegroups.com>om>, CG <cg(a)lists.iccs-conference.org> Subject: Re: [ontolog-trustee] Trying to develop a proper useful topic for the 2025 summit With John's points as background I suggest that the way to frame a workable summit topic would be to explore the current and likely limits to useful formalization. Gary Berg-Cross Potomac, MD 240-426-0770